homage. Pay it.

near GOAT

No player in NBA history was more obsessed with basketball than this guy.

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The Kobe fan club trying to put this motherfucker on MJ's level has been pretty maddening over the years, but he was still great. Slightly overrated, but great.

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BIGBrandon2785 wrote:

Gruber>Dbo>Jermz>Souljah>Burowz>Kaos>Truth>Anis>Geo>CGJ>Cole>Bonea>
>Moe>Prime>>Joso>Vendetta> Wlad>>Finito>Victor......................... :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: FUCKS WIT ME!!!

He was overrated by that club, but underrated even more so by his detractors.

I know we always say this, but, I can say without certainty, there will never be another Kobe. He has his own class. It's below Jordan, but it's above anything that exists in the NBA right now.

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I can't agree with that. Lebron's peak > Kobe's peak. Duncan too. Someone could make an argument for Shaq too, but most of Shaq's game was an offensive foul, so fuck that fat fuck. I think Kobe is the 3rd or 4th best of the last 15 years, which is great, but some would take as a slight.

It's true, Kobe is the only one who had the MJ temperament, but I think it ultimately hurt Kobe as he just wasn't as good as Mike. Acting like a athletic psychopath, and jacking up 27 shots a game, only really works if you're the GOAT.

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BIGBrandon2785 wrote:

Gruber>Dbo>Jermz>Souljah>Burowz>Kaos>Truth>Anis>Geo>CGJ>Cole>Bonea>
>Moe>Prime>>Joso>Vendetta> Wlad>>Finito>Victor......................... :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: FUCKS WIT ME!!!

Lebron is 2-4 in the Finals and blatantly no showed in 2 of the 4 losses, and would've got heat for being 1-5 if not for Ray Allen's heroics that one year. So I cant put him ahead of Kobe as of now. Better overall player for sure, but Kobe still>James as of now. Id put Duncan on par with Kobe.

As for the MJ thing, Ive never put Kobe in that class. MJ is the best that ever did it.

There weren't 4 better players than Kobe in the last 15 years.
That's almost a mathematical impossibility considering how good Kobe was.

Mike is it and that's that. We have to wait for LeBron to find is his career, if you feel he's already peaked I'm taking Kobe in his prime.

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How I feel after failing the Anis test

It's difficult to play those games, though. I could come back with the Lakers three peat only happened because of two of the most crooked officiated games of all time (Blazers in 2000, Kings in 2001), and take away two titles right there. Wins and losses happen for a variety of reasons, so you just go with what happened.

Bottom line, Kobe will always have a better finals record than Lebron, but it's worth mentioning Lebron was always the best player on his finals teams while Kobe spent his first four finals appearance as the Pippen, so they're different circumstances.

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BIGBrandon2785 wrote:

Gruber>Dbo>Jermz>Souljah>Burowz>Kaos>Truth>Anis>Geo>CGJ>Cole>Bonea>
>Moe>Prime>>Joso>Vendetta> Wlad>>Finito>Victor......................... :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: FUCKS WIT ME!!!

How good was he, though? Kobe has this reputation as this assassin, but he has one more scoring title than Lebron, and averages 2 points less per game (and 1 point less per game in the playoffs). If he's not scoring more than Lebron, and he isn't, what is he doing better? He's not passing, rebounding, or defending better.

Is it just winning? Are we putting that much weight on titles, which as Anis pointed out with Ray Allen, could go either way, on any given night? Kobe won a title shooting 6-24 in Game 7. Is that greatness, or circumstance?

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BIGBrandon2785 wrote:

Gruber>Dbo>Jermz>Souljah>Burowz>Kaos>Truth>Anis>Geo>CGJ>Cole>Bonea>
>Moe>Prime>>Joso>Vendetta> Wlad>>Finito>Victor......................... :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: FUCKS WIT ME!!!

I have more respect for 6-24 than I do for whatever it was Lebron was doing in the Finals against Dallas. Or the Spurs rematch. Kobe has played bad in some big spots, but literally melting in the spotlight, which I saw Lebron do more than once in Finals play, is just huge for me in this debate.

I think it's kind of lost, maybe I'm crazy, but when Kobe's shooting was do do in that game, he started doing everything else that he could to make them win, boards, passing, defense, hustle, everything.

And as for comparisons, nobody has had to overcome more than Kobe, albeit it sometimes was his own doing, but it still counts in my eyes. Shaqs ego, being a child in a mans league, the colorado thing, having to coexist after snitching on shaq , dealing with lazy Shaq, playing essentially in MJ's shadow without being a bull, and then all the shit he had to deal with after Shaq left. And in hindsight, those laker squads post shaq weren't all that. Bynum seldom played, Gasol was always on the trading block for being soft lol, and they never really had scorers on the squad, and lets not go into Kobe being the only guy in fucking NBA history that could motivate Lamar Odom to play at his best.

Duncan was great, but literally his entire NBA career was a stable controlled environment, and Lebron is arguably on that track it being an environment that he controls. Even when Kobe was a few points under shaq..it was complete and utter turmoil, and it never did anything but make the fire burn hotter.

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Naw man, he's over Lebron and Duncan, until Lebron can prove it wrong.

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yea, looking back at the stats, Kobe did have 15 boards and made 11 FTs, and im sure willed the Lakers to that ugly win with his hustle. Had he just stayed in the corner playing rock-scissors-paper with Bruce Bowen ala LeBron, I don't think the Lakers win that game.

Ya man. I dont recall kobe ever putting up boards like that. And doing that against a board heavy celtics squad reeks of hustle. The detractors just see points though. IT was an ugly game on both sides, Kobe willed them to a win. Not to mention MR Selfish passes it off to Metta for the icer.

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Kobe was one of the only two guys who could match shot for shot arguably the hottest offensive wing scoring machine of any one brief period, McGrady. Dirk being the other.

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Duncan is the best power forward ever, and has as many titles as Kobe. What is the argument for Kobe being ranked ahead of him? More dominant? When? When he was the second best player on his own team? Or the run in the mid-2000's when the Lakers couldn't get out of the first round?

Lebron is better than Kobe by every personal stat there is.The only case against Lebron is title wins. Considering basketball is a team game where Ray Allen is making/breaking Lebron's chances, and Robert Horry is making/breaking Kobe's, this is a flawed argument. Am I to believe, Lebron on the early 2000 Lakers can't get three rings like Kobe? As long as we're speculating, I can speculate Lebron might have gotten more.

Here's an interesting debate: How many seasons was Kobe the best player in the NBA? I'm not talking about MVP's (Kobe was better than Nash when he was winning back-to-back). What seasons? Because before looking at stats, Kobe wasn't while the Lakers were winning their first three titles with him, and he wasn't when he won the next two, as Lebron had already blossomed. It seems like it may have only been when the Lakers were bad in the mid-2000's after the Shaq/Kobe breakup.

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BIGBrandon2785 wrote:

Gruber>Dbo>Jermz>Souljah>Burowz>Kaos>Truth>Anis>Geo>CGJ>Cole>Bonea>
>Moe>Prime>>Joso>Vendetta> Wlad>>Finito>Victor......................... :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: FUCKS WIT ME!!!

I'm bored. Kobe came into the league in 1996. These are who I have as the best players every year since then.

1996/1997-1997/1998: Michael Jordan
1998/1999-1999/2000: Shaquille O'neal
2000/2001-2001/2002: Allen Iverson
2002/2003: Tracy McGrady
2003/2004: Kevin Garnett
2004/2005: Allen Iverson
2005/2006-2006/2007: Kobe Bryant
2007/2008-2012/2013: LeBron James
2013/2014: Kevin Durant
2014/2015: LeBron James
2015/2016-: Stephen Curry


1996-1998
MJ: 29.2/5.8/3.9
Kobe: 11.7/2.5/1.9

(Kobe is coming off the bench, fresh out of high school, so this isn't fair, but it will become fair by the next batch)

1998-2000
Shaq: 28.4/12.5./3.2
Kobe: 21.5/5.9/4.4

2000-2002
AI: 31.2/4.1/5.0
Kobe: 26.7/5.7/5.2

2002/2003
T-Mac: 32.1/6.5/5.5
Kobe: 30.0/6.9/5.9

2003/2004
KG: 24.2/13.9/5.0
Kobe: 24.0/5.5/5.1

2004/2005
AI: 30.7/4.0/7.9
Kobe: 27.6/5.9/6.0

2005-2007
Kobe: 33.5/5.5/4.9

2007/2008-2012/2013
LeBron: 28.2/7.7/7.3
Kobe: 27.1/5.5/5.1

I got Kobe at two seasons as the undisputed, best player in the NBA. You could maybe sneak two more, one in the T-Mac year (although I think that would be crazy), or the KG year (equally crazy). During no season of LeBron's reign could Kobe sneak ahead of him, including the two championship years, which is even more lopsided for LeBron (29.1/7.4/7.9 vs. 26.9/5.3/4.9). Wade actually comes closer than Kobe in 2008/2009 to having a better season than LeBron (30.2/5/7.5). Statistically, LeBron's most dominant run dwarfs Kobe's. I don't even like LeBron, but that's just the way it is.

Side note, I'm coming to the conclusion that Durant has been a superior scorer than Kobe. Kobe has led the league in shot attempts six times en route to only two scoring titles. Durant has led the league in shot attempts only twice en route to four scoring titles. Durant has a chance to sneak past Kobe when it's all said and done, although it seems much less likely now than it did a couple years ago.

Another side note, MJ wasn't human. Led the league in shot attempts nine times, and won the scoring title every single year he did that plus one more for good measure (Jordan averaged 32.5/8/8 the year he shot less than normal). Both Jordan and Kobe averaged an insane 27 shots per game one year. Kobe averaged 35 points that year. Jordan averaged 37. It's not even close. I'm proud nobody here is making the case for Kobe over Jordan. Although Ice hasn't chimed in yet.

The only advanced stat I looked at was PER, and Kobe never once lead the league in PER. MJ did it seven times. Lebron six. Shaq five. KG did it twice. T-Mac once in the year you would expect him to. In Kobe's defense, neither has Timmy Duncan.

I comfortably have Lebron and Shaq ahead of Kobe now, and I still have Duncan ahead of him by less of a margin than I would have originally thought. Plus the last two years of Jordan's prime, Kobe is the fifth best player I've seen since he came into the league. That is fantastic, but less than his reputation.

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BIGBrandon2785 wrote:

Gruber>Dbo>Jermz>Souljah>Burowz>Kaos>Truth>Anis>Geo>CGJ>Cole>Bonea>
>Moe>Prime>>Joso>Vendetta> Wlad>>Finito>Victor......................... :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: FUCKS WIT ME!!!

There arent really any youngins here to try and make that case Gruber. We all grew up watching Jordan evicerate the league. Much like I once hated Floyd, I hated Kobe for years on the grounds that I felt insulted by the idea that he was being dubbed by some as the next Jordan. I hated vince carter for the same reason. But I went 180 on Kobe, he proved shit to me overwhelmingly, in both ability and drive.

But him and Mike was never an argument.

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Gruber is exactly right. Kobe is a great scorer. Thats it. He had that dog in him, but he also has a lil bit of TO in him as in Team Obliterator. Ran Shaq outta town, called Gasol and dwight soft, said Malone tried to bang his wife, and so forth. Drama queen who always needed a big man/stacked team.

Fuck Kobe he is under Lebron and Duncan thats for dam sure. People wanna play with those two, nobody wants to play with the NBA's all-time leader in missed shots

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My name is Ice, and I want to sincerely apologize to Matthew Stafford for all of the irrational, unfair, and quite frankly stupid comments I have made about him in the past. Stafford is elite. Stafford is clutch. Stafford is a winner. Stafford is, forever, a Super Bowl Champion. I know this now.

Just putting it out there, Ice is the original Kobe hater, from which spread every other Kobe hater in the world. From Ice sprouted Aneed...and so forth. So their opinions shouldn't even be considered lol.

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Come on Gruber, the shit goes deeper than just raw year to year numbers and PER or whatever. Remember Lebron's last home playoff game for the Cavs before bolting to Miami?? Dude literally quit on the floor for all to see. Then quit on his team all together and started a super team in Miami, then mailed it in 2 more times in the Finals there. Then he quit all together on that team and started another super team in Clev. Then he's had all those times where he's gone soft or deferred to other teammates in big situations for fear of getting fouled and going to the line where he's choked plenty of times. Nobody ever accused Kobe of quitting or shrinking or getting soft or skipping town when shit got hard. I'll take those intangible things over Lebron averaging a couple more pts, few more rebs, and couple more assists.

Well its alot easier not to quit with a great big man and phil jackson there to take the pressure off..... Geez how would Kobe have done with some of Lebrons supporting casts LMAO.

He would have called them all soft faggots and hoes, white swans instead of black swans, claimed they tried to fuck his girl or told their wives they fuck with strippers

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My name is Ice, and I want to sincerely apologize to Matthew Stafford for all of the irrational, unfair, and quite frankly stupid comments I have made about him in the past. Stafford is elite. Stafford is clutch. Stafford is a winner. Stafford is, forever, a Super Bowl Champion. I know this now.

and its easier not to quit with Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, and Pat Riley. Stop. You give Kobe shit for not winning without Shaq, then he wins multiple times without Shaq, but then I guess it was Pau Gasol and Whore House Lamar to the rescue. Cut it out. Shaq won once without Kobe and that was with Wade. Gasol and Lamar aint never win shit without Kobe. Kobe has won multiple times with and without all them dudes.

What did I say about Ice he on some bullshit!

Lamar been a hot mess without Kobe in his life, Gasol aint puttin chicago over any top, 2 titles with kobe in LA. Bynum aint even in the fucking league anymore. Where is Ariza? How about Shannon brown? Fish ran his ass into retirement riding anothr legends coat tails (Phil). How about Metta?

Lebron this Lebron that, 2 fucking hand picked super teams, and 2 titles to show for it, Kobe aint ever have a single choice in his career. They shipped Shaq out because physically it was the smart thing to do, and Ice there is no fucking way you look back on it and do it differently...when even at that point of departure, Shaq wasn't the better player. So shut the fuck up man, and appreciate the Mamba!!!

You wanna come talk about Duncan, I can respect the man, despite being coddled (far more than Kobe) his whole fucking career. But he got titles and as Gruber said...he's basically the best, if not top 2-3 best PF of all time. But get that career aint even over Lequit shit out of my face!

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LeBron is a cunt. I hate him. You're right, he quit in those two series, and it was inexcusable. We all had a field day making fun of him while Cole pouted that year. But LeBron is still better than Kobe. The fact that his stats are so much better than Kobe, with less of a killer instinct than Kobe, shows how talented LeBron really is.

The simplest argument for LeBron over Kobe, and I said it in that wall of text, so it's forgivable if it was missed -- Kobe, the scorer, averages less points per game than LeBron. If Kobe isn't scoring more than LeBron, and he isn't, what does he do better? Nothing. There is nothing Kobe does better than LeBron. LeBron is even a better clutch shooter than Kobe.

Kobe has more rings. That's his only argument. But he won 60% of those rings as the second banana. LeBron would probably have more rings if he was the second best player on his team too. Unfortunately, Lebron wasn't second best to anybody in the league for the bulk of his career.

If we're already down to intangibles, I guess this is over already, since it can't be proved or disproved.

At least answer me how many seasons Kobe was the best player in the league. Isn't it lower than you would've thought?

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BIGBrandon2785 wrote:

Gruber>Dbo>Jermz>Souljah>Burowz>Kaos>Truth>Anis>Geo>CGJ>Cole>Bonea>
>Moe>Prime>>Joso>Vendetta> Wlad>>Finito>Victor......................... :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: FUCKS WIT ME!!!